When doing research, consider who you are talking to.
If you are talking to a close friend of yours who also knows the other side, then you are on more even ground, as you know what their standards are and how they judge, and you can put the answers in a proper prospective. I
f you do not know the person you are calling for information, be careful what weight you put on the answers. If something you hear is raising a flag, ask specific questions to clarify what you are hearing, you may have misunderstood or the person at the other end meant something different. It is much easier to clarify things right away, rather that later. Also, do not automatically say no. Do further research on that one point until you are very sure that the facts are true, and it is something undesirable to you.
Some other possible questions: What is their connection to the Rebbe? What part does the Rebbe play in their lives? (this is not a “meshichist” or “anti” question). Are the parents hands on parents or more laissez faire. Was there sholom bayis in their home? Do they have a lot of emotional baggage? Is she open-minded? ( what does open minded mean to you?) Is the family open-minded? Are they straightforward and honest, or is there a hidden agenda, and you don’t really know their intentions? Are they open to change, or do they dread it? How do they act with strangers: are they respectful with all kinds of people, janitors, cleaning ladies, shopkeepers, kids, secretaries yidden and goyim etc.? Are they a ‘good listener’? Are they always thinking of the next project, or do they take time to really give you their whole attention? Do they set attainable goals or just castles in the sky? Do they go with the flow, or do they know where they are going? Do they have a mashpia? Do they follow advice or prefer their own counsel? What is their conversation like? Eleanor Roosevelt said, “Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.”
Centuries ago, Machiavelli (Niccolò di Bernardo dei Machiavelli born in 1469 and diplomat and adviser to the Medici family, known for his work “The Prince” and Discourses on Livy) noted in “The Prince”: “The great majority of mankind are satisfied with appearances, as though they were realities, and are often more influenced by things that seem, than by those that are.” Or as Rabbi Yehudah HaNossi (the prince) used to say: “Al tistakel b’kankan elah b’ma sheyeysh bo.” Don’t look at the flask, but at its contents.
Thursday, August 6, 2009
Consider who you are talking to.
Posted by Basmelech at 15:04 0 comments
Labels: Shidduchim Information gathering and giving, middos, Priorities, qualities, references, rejection, requirements, research, Shiduchim
Tuesday, July 28, 2009
Lets ask some more
- What are her hobbies?
- Does she say ChiTas? Does she daven every day, etc?
- Does she have a lot of friends? Is she dedicated to her friends?
- Does she have a sense of humor?
- Does she have common sense?
- Is she a morning or a night person?
- What do you consider her best quality? (subjective question) What is the one thing that comes to mind when one mentions her name?
- What do you consider her worst defect? (subjective question)
Posted by Basmelech at 11:03 1 comments
Labels: Shidduchim Information gathering and giving, middos, qualities, references, requirements, shidduchim parsha, Shiduchim
More ???
- Does she have an even temperament.
- Does she have a temper?
- Question: Is she neat, organized?
- Question: Is she careful with tznius?
- Question: Is she fashion-conscious, obsessed?
- Is the family a close knit family?
- Is she sociable, or reserved?
Posted by Basmelech at 10:24 0 comments
Labels: Shidduchim Information gathering and giving, middos, Priorities, qualities, references, requirements, research, shidduchim, shidduchim parsha, Shiduchim, social skills
Monday, July 13, 2009
Questions on Girls
- What Seminary did she go to?
- What is she doing now?
- Did she go on shlichus after Sem?
- What does she want to do, teach, work in an office, go to college, shlichus etc?
- What did she do with her summers?
- Is she shy or lebedick
Posted by Basmelech at 17:43 0 comments
Labels: Shidduchim Information gathering and giving, references, requirements, research, shadchan, shidduchim, Shiduchim
Thursday, June 11, 2009
Common research questions
Herewith follows a list of some of the most common questions generally asked when doing research.
I wish to re-emphasize the importance of research. It is not an outdated practice; it is not (generally) a hunt for irrelevant details; it is a job that parents or mashpiim must do to prevent possible disasters down the line. When a boy and a girl go out, it is not fair to ask them to find out background information that their parents should have found out in advance. During the first few dates asking information is awkward for the couple, and later when feelings are involved, it is difficult for the young people to get the information their parents could have gotten before they met.
When a couple goes out, they should only have to judge if there is any connection between themselves, any reciprocal feeling. They should not have to dig for family information.
Basic questions about the family:
• Family composition -
- how many siblings,
how many are married and
to whom.
Who are the grandparents
If it is of interest to you, ask about the family's yichus
- Family Status -
Parents are married, divorced
FFB, BT
What do the parents do for a living
• Family health: are there any major problems in the family which might compound health weaknesses in your family, i.e. Diabetes?
• How is the family regarded in the community?
• If it happens that the parents of the suggested Shidduch were divorced, one should find out if the prospective mate had the opportunity to observe a happy, normal marriage. Do not automatically reject children of divorced parents. A child of a divorced couple can be just as well adjusted as a child of a couple who stayed married. Probably better adjusted than the child of those cases when the parents stayed married but the child was exposed to constant strife between them. If a child of divorce has been able to observe a regular happy household, either by friends or on shlichus etc, there is no reason why this person cannot have a happy married life notwithstanding his/her parents divorce.
• If one of the families are Cohanim, they will have particular questions requiring answers because of the rigorous halachos regarding marriage of Cohanim.
Questions about boys next time.
Posted by Basmelech at 23:23 0 comments
Labels: Shidduchim Information gathering and giving, references, Shiduchim, upbringing
Tuesday, May 26, 2009
Cont'd Dr. Mittman on Health Research
Dr. Mittman continues writing:
" Genetic Assessment
The organization Dor Yeshorim has increased awareness of genetics in the Orthodox community. The testing it provides is one way to alert people considering marriage as to whether, together, they are likely to have children with a specific genetic condition, such as cystic fibrosis, Tay Sachs, Canavan disease, or Bloom syndrome.
In regard to other illnesses and conditions, however, my research has unraveled many erroneous beliefs. Do they constitute a genetic condition or not? As an Orthodox physician articulated to me, “People often call me with genetic questions. There are lots of different disorders, and many people don’t have any idea whether they are genetic, or even important.”
Getting an accurate genetic risk assessment in a quick phone inquiry is rather tricky. First of all, genetics is a complex science, and demands a close familiarity with the rapidly evolving nature of the field and emerging findings of human genome research. Moreover, only a careful examination of the health history of both sides of the family would be reliable enough to be used as a basis for such an important question as “chasana or no chasana?” So, where do we go from here?
The Benefit-Burden Concept
While Dor Yeshorim offers a reliable way to do premarital testing for recessive conditions, it does not guarantee perfect health for a myriad of other conditions that are not recessive. Simply put, there is no such thing as a “free lunch.” Everything we do in life demands some compromise, some work, and yes, risk-taking.
When one gets into a car one takes a major risk for injury and even fatal accidents, G-d forbid, but one takes this risk daily because one needs to get places to carry out our routines. In other words, for the benefit of driving we have to put up with the risks that driving entails: getting lost on the way to our destination, having a flat tire, or, G-d forbid, worse possibilities. In the same way, finding our bashert means taking a chance. We hope that we and our children and loved ones will live to me’ah ve’esrim (120) in wonderful health, but we cannot predict our future, and there are no guarantees. We do not know whether the child will develop asthma, have an attention deficit disorder, or grow up to have hypertension.
The Beauty of Diversity
We have to remember, also, the special value of uniqueness, our diversity is what makes the world such a wonderful place. Having said that, if there are serious health issues in the family beyond those of the general population, it is possible to ascertain genetic risk. Just remember, it is a matter for experts. Call your doctor, and if the doctor is not sure, ask to speak to a genetic specialist. To find a genetic counselor in your area, you can log into the web site of the National Society of Genetic Counseling: www.nsgc.org.
Dr. Mittman is a certified genetic counselor and a public health expert at the Office of Minority Health and Health Disparities in the Maryland Department of Health and Hygiene.
What I want to bring to your attention with this article is that one should be discriminating when doing research on matters of health. Do not reject a shidduch out of hand because of a health problem. Consult with a doctor who can advise you.
Posted by Basmelech at 13:58 0 comments
Labels: Shidduchim health, Information gathering and giving, marriage, references, shidduchim
Thursday, May 21, 2009
How much research
Like every thing else, just mentioning the words “shiduchim research” in a group, will bring conflicting and contradictory opinions.
A popular story is the one of the Rov who was presented a case, and after the first side speaks, he agrees with him. Then when the second side speaks, he agrees with him, so the Rov's wife asks him, “How can they both be right?”, and he responds to her, “You are also right!”
So it is with research: there are those who say there is not enough research done and that is why later problems may arise, and they are right. On the other hand, there are those that say that research has gotten out of hand, and people ask questions that have no relevance to the character of the person in question--they are also right. I guess they can both be right.
Research can prevent all sorts of problems later on. Make sure the character presented is truly the character that is (as shown previously). When the couple does meets, it should be just to make sure they have a connection and are on the same wavelength. They should enjoy talking to each other and be able to relate to each other. Going out should not be about general research. All that should be done in advance.
That is how it is possible for a couple to go out 5 or 8 times and say yes. All that has to be discovered by the couple is if they have an affinity for each other. (I’ll return to the subject later when we discuss dating.)
On the other hand, overkill in research is not conducive to a good result. Often inappropriate questions are asked. Another example of an unsuitable question would be: What kind of car do the parents drive? It might indicate the financial level of the family, but there are better and more direct ways to find that out.
Everyone has a "skeleton in the closet" it may be more or less substantial but no one alive can bare their life and come out "roses". Peccadilloes abound. The thing is to know what are peccadilloes that can be ignored and information that will make a difference in our children's lives.
Heath issues, as will be written in a future blog entry, should be always checked out. Rumors should be taken as untrue but followed up to make sure. Stick to facts in all things, assumptions and gossip are not good information.
Someone said that unfortunately, we are living in a culture that makes more of defining a person by the subcategories of subcategories which they fit into than by the nobility of their character. This is indeed a sad state of affairs. And this is what we should avoid doing in our research. Don’t ask question to categorize people; ask questions that will reveal their personality and character.
Posted by Basmelech at 19:34 0 comments
Labels: Shidduchim Information gathering and giving, qualities, references, requirements, research, shidduchim, Shiduchim
Wednesday, May 13, 2009
Calling for References
When you call, you should have a list of specific questions.
In order to receive good answers, direct questions are a must. A written list of questions is necessary. You may think that you know in your mind what questions you wish to have answered, but during a conversation, it is easy to get sidetracked and distracted, and then forget to find out about important points.
With a written list you can check off the questions as they get answered. Take notes of the answers. Ask the person to give you a second as you are taking notes. Even if you have a good memory, it is easy to forget the details. Even more, it is useful to write the exact words (adjectives) you hear, so your mind does not supply its own interpretation of what you heard.
It is easy to be influenced without realizing it. If the person on the other end of the phone is enthusiastic about the prospect, one is easily carried along by the enthusiasm and may interpret what one hears subjectively. If we write the exact words, we can review the conversation without that influence. Although, (yes, I am being contrary) impressions should be noted as well.
Asking what can you tell me about so and so is not an answerable question. First of all as explained previously one can only answer questions that are specific in nature and not general questions. I will give examples of specific questions in a separate blog.
I also believe in making the calls myself and not having another person call for me. This is my personal preference because when you listen to someone’s description, often you can hear between the lines what they are not saying. The tone of voice will give you pointers. The pauses, the type of adjectives used will tell you more than just “Merriam-Webster’s” definition.
For example, you call someone and after the first few awkward explanations, the conversation takes a warmer tone. The person genuinely likes the one you are discussing, and it comes through in the tone of their voice. Or someone is not very familiar with them, so they may sound hesitant. Someone may describe the person as “nice”, “pleasant”, etc. These are “milquetoast” (tame) adjectives, too bland to describe someone who certainly has some admirable characteristics.
The exception to calling references yourself is if the young man or lady calls for herself. That is a much more difficult call. It would be preferred if at all possible that a mashpia or good (married, older) friend make the calls for the one involved. Aside from the reticence involved in asking information for oneself, and the reciprocal reticence of not wanting to tell the person directly involved less than laudatory information, there is the stress of finding out again and again that the name suggested is very far from the requested ideal. Finding out again and again that the proposed shidduch is only a match in the very basic terms (one is a girl and one is a boy) depresses and stresses out the young man or young lady making the calls.
I know of a mashpia who told his mushpa to pass along to him all the names he is offered and he would make the calls. If anything appropriate was suggested then he would pass back the name.
Posted by Basmelech at 13:49 0 comments
Labels: Shidduchim Information gathering and giving, Loshen Hora, Priorities, qualities, references, requirements, research
Wednesday, May 6, 2009
Friend references
There are a lot of reasons why the information one may get from a friend might not be of the highest caliber. (Don't get offended out there; it is a fact that references received from friends are not always reliable)
I have heard of friends giving totally "off the wall" information just because they did not like the tone in which a question was asked, or they did not think the question was a worthy one and therefore they felt it slighted their friend. The problem is that although the question might be unworthy, the way it is answered does a lot of damage, which surely the friend did not intend.
So all you friends out there, answer all questions to the best of your ability even if you think it is unworthy or annoying. When you do not know an answer (and this goes for everyone) say so. "I do not know" is better than speculating and assuming.
Girls often get asked in a lot of ways and forms for their friend's size. We all agree that it is a question that should not be asked because size is not what we should be checking out, but that is not a good reason to either hang up the phone or be less than gracious to the person requesting the information. It is understood that even if the girl is a size 2 one still does not wish to answer such a question, in which case one can answer with a witticism, or that: “She is the right size” knowing that if one refuses to answer it will be construed as a negative answer.
Friends who have lost touch since high school should specify that they have not been in touch, or have not seen each other in a long time. The growing years between high school and marriage are very formative years. A person will change tremendously during that time, therefore the way one acted then and the way one acts now could be entirely different.
A friend might be called because the person inquiring knows that these two people are friends. It does not mean one is on the friends list as a reference. Therefore if one has not heard from a friend in a long time, one should say that in a nice way, while giving positive information and reminding the caller that it is a while since there was contact.
In short, whether you are a close friend or a fair-weather friend when asked for information answer as best and as politely as you can and do not get riled at the questions you hear.
Posted by Basmelech at 12:19 2 comments
Labels: Shidduchim Information gathering and giving, references, shidduchim, Shiduchim, size
Tuesday, May 5, 2009
Being a reference
If someone calls you to ask that you be a reference for them, on the one hand, know what you are taking on, but on the other hand do not say no just because it takes a bit of effort.
You might want to discuss with the person calling you what is your impression of their child (or themselves). Or you may ask them if there is something they wish you to say, or not say.
It also pays to learn the halachos of Lashon harah for this particular case: giving information for a shidduch. You may want to go to this blog (February archive - the toungue III) and look up the article about giving information. As mentioned in the above referenced blog if you are asked something you are not sure how to answer tell the person you have to call them back and call a Rov to find out what you should say.
If you accept the responsibility of being a reference, realize that it might take time out of your schedule to properly answer the questions posed. If it is not possible for you to be available when the person calls for references, take their number and tell them you will call back or ask them to call you at a more convenient time. Do not say that you are too busy and cannot help. That is not complementary to the person who gave out your name.
If your name was given without your knowledge and you really cannot take the time to be a reference for your friend, then call your friend and ask him/her to take you off the list.
In short it is a wonderful thing you are doing by giving of your time to help someone get married, but make sure you give only facts and you know exactly what one is allowed to say and what one should not say. Answer questions to the point and not general questions like : "What can you tell me about plony ben/bas ploni."
Posted by Basmelech at 16:49 0 comments
Labels: Shidduchim Information gathering and giving, references, research, Shidduch, Shiduchim
Choosing what references to give
Keep the resume updated.
If the resume was made a year ago, make sure to review it before it is sent on. If you have not talked to a particular reference for a long time, decide if you wish to keep that reference on or change it for someone else.
Make sure you know what the reference will say about your single, or you. If you have to ask a friend to call the reference and ask about you (or your single), to find out what is said, then do it!
Please everyone, when you give a name for references speak to that person and make sure they will give references for you. There are plenty of cases when a parent will call and hear the reference say: "I can't imagine why my name was given I really do not know ... ." This is not a positive answer!
Choose some references that know your family, even if they do not know your single so well because s/he was away in yeshiva, seminary, shlichus etc. Then give adult references that know your single, maybe a shlucha/shliach they worked for, or a mashpia etc. Then give friends of your single. Have your single call his/her friends and make sure they will give the right kind of info about her.
Do not panic if no one calls your references. Maybe the person found out all they wished to know from other sources. On the other hand do not consider your references as a minor part of the shidduch process. Give enough thought to who you are giving and who would be your best advocate.
Posted by Basmelech at 14:29 0 comments
Labels: Shidduchim Information gathering and giving, references, research, Shidduch, Shiduchim
Wednesday, April 29, 2009
Introduction to research
The next topic I will tackle is research. I know it is a topic that is important to many, and that is why I want to preface it with some important points.
Research is very important in a shidduch. In fact it is essential. But like all things it has to be done in the right way. Too little research and you will not get the important information you need, too much research and no one will be good enough.
The timing of research is also important: before the boy and girl meet, do all the research you can. Check references, call your friends, call anyone you want. Once you have decided that it is a good match and they start going out, one should really be sure that this is the right one. One can still make calls especially in the beginning of going out, (such as the first 2, 3 dates) when it is believed that this is a possible yes and there are some new doubts, or information to clarify. But it should be self understood that the bulk of the research has already been done.
After the couple is engaged, there should be no more research calls made. If someone specifically calls with information, one can listen and one can verify that information but do not actively continue to dig. At this point the couple is engaged and feelings are involved. Even in Lubavitch where we do not do Eirusin and we only do Tenoyim just before the chuppa, breaking an engagement is a weighty thing.
Therefore do research before they meet, clear up your doubts if necessary after they have met, but once they are engaged, do not continue doing research. After all if we have bitachon that the Eibishter is our partner in the shidduch then we have to leave it up to Him that this is the right person for our child, or that He will arange matters for the good.
There was a cute? sad? commentary on research on the web, that detailed how we would not even consider the Avos or Imaot, or even Moshe Rabeinu as in laws, if we were doing the research these days, so let us not be obsessive and if we are too close to the matter and not sure if we have done enough research we should ask our mashpia or rav for advice.
Let us keep things in prospective and not need to know when was s/he was toilet trained and we do not need to speak to their elementary teachers.
Posted by Basmelech at 12:59 0 comments
Labels: Shidduchim marriage, references, requirements, research, shadchan, shadchonim, Shidduch, Shiduchim
Wednesday, April 22, 2009
Mothers-in-Law
There definitely is a reason why most mother in law jokes are on mothers of boys and not on mothers of girls.
Rabbi Manis Friedman gave a speech about how eventually we all turn into our mothers. To a greater or lesser degree, we end up copying the role model from whom we learned our fundamentals. Therefore, a mother of girls is relatively assured that her daughter will follow in her footsteps, albeit in the daughter’s own style.
A boy’s mother has no such assurance. After all, our boys leave the house at a young age. The saying that behind a great man is a great woman is not a myth; it definitely has merit. The chumash tells us that Chava was created to be an eizer, a helpmeet for Adam, but also she was kenegdo, she was "opposite" him. If he erred she was to show him the error and encourage a proper way. Being an eizer kenegso is probably one of the hardest things wives do. A wife gets a special Siata d'Shmaya, a sixth sense, if you will, to know when her husband is going the wrong way, or sliding back. It is the job of a true diplomat to encourage and direct a husband without being a nudge or putting up his back etc. But it is the wife's job to help keep the yiddishkeit of the home at the highest level they can be for them.
This is why a mother would be even more concerned with the character of a future daughter-in-law than the character of a future son-in -law. A mother will research both carefully, but when looking for a wife for a son, that extra degree of care is exerted. When presenting yourself or your single to a shadchan, please be truthful. Present yourself in your current state, not a “virtual” future state. Secondly, when you do reserch, try to be thorough although not obsessive, and do not listen to rumors. If a rumor is persistent find out the facts behind it, do not drop a shidduch because of something that may be unfounded.
Posted by Basmelech at 19:24 0 comments
Labels: Shidduchim beshert, Bitachon, marriage, qualities, references, requirements, research, shadchonim, Shidduch, shidduchim
Saturday, April 18, 2009
Constant Attention
Two things are considered as difficult as the parting of the Reed sea: livelihood and marriage.
Rav Yaakov Kamenetzky develops the point: livelihood needs constant attention and care. One cannot give sporadic attention to his business or job and expect to have a living Parnossah.
A person needs to come up with new creative ways to keep and earn his living -- new avenues of business, new markets etc. In a job one has to maintain one’s status and remain current with new trends and developments in one’s field or profession.
So too by zivugim (marriage as well, not just matchmaking) and livelihood. There can be no coasting. It must be constantly nurtured, expanded, and maintained. We have to constantly make calls and research potential names, expanding our search to other countries, if necessary. Try other methods and any avenue available in order to be successful.
Posted by Basmelech at 22:06 0 comments
Labels: Shidduchim qualities, references, rejection, requirements, research, shadchan, shadchonim, Shidduch, shidduchim parsha, Shiduchim
Monday, March 9, 2009
Lying
Posted by Basmelech at 12:50 0 comments
Labels: Shidduchim Information gathering and giving, Loshen Hora, matchmakers, references, research, shadchan, Shidduch, shidduchim, shidduchim parsha, Shiduchim
Tuesday, March 3, 2009
An Unfortunate Habit
It has become common for boys and girls to discuss with their peers details of the dates they have been on.
This is certainly forbidden and has no constructive value. If a bochur or a girl feels that someone he/she has gone out with may fit one of her/his friends, they should approach their parents, a mashpia or some other person who is capable to “redt” the shidduch and have them do so in the regular way. To simply gossip "discuss" the dates one has had is pure loshon hora with no redeeming qualities. An inadvertent comment may ruin someone’s shidduch, as that boy/girl will have a preconceived notion about the prospective shidduch which may be quite erroneous and therefore harmful.
In the matter of shidduchim, it is most necessary to conduct oneself with tznius and not advertise with whom and when one went out. Brocha only comes if things are done quietly and modestly, and this should be especially so with shidduchim.
There is an enormous amount of peer pressure, certainly among the girls, to share one’s experiences when one goes out, or to keep best friends “in the loop” when names are offered as possible shidduchim.
It is not correct for a girl or a boy to reveal any information about a prospective shidduch or what happens on their date, to a friend. Even if the friend might get offended because they are "kept out" this should not influence the boy or girl to disclose this information. It is unfortunate that friends feels slighted but it cannot be helped. Where is their caring for the friend's privacy? Girls do not realize that this is not another sleepover secret whispered under the covers. This is a time when you make life altering decisions. A serious matter, not something to be shared in girlish confidences. It will bolster our S/D if we, as parents, explain to them how any information having to do with shidduchim, either at earlier stages or even during dating, should not be given out.
There is a much debated Mishna which enjoins one not to talk a lot with a woman (“Al tarbe sicha im haisha”). Chazal say the language of the posuk for "talk" is sicha which is translated as light conversation, not an intellectual exchange of ideas or even general practical matters. This is conversation with no redeeming qualities, and no practical value. Some commentaries mention that the posuk expressively says ‘HaIsha’ (the woman) and the article “the” denotes a wife. So we are warned not to gossip even if it is just between husband and wife. Imagine how much more we are enjoined not to gossip among friends and acquaintances.
Posted by Basmelech at 17:19 0 comments
Labels: Shidduchim Information gathering and giving, Loshen Hora, Manners, references, research, shadchan, Shidduch, shidduchim
Monday, February 23, 2009
The Tongue Conclusion
Even when asking a teacher, principal or Rav subjective research questions, one should be careful to be on the same page. Which means you understand his "measuring scale" so that when s/he answers a question,"s/he is very chassidish" you know just what level of "chassidish" s/he means, and if not refine your question and ask clarification.
A Rov or principal who deals with such evaluations often will be able to give a proper answer. A regular person should not be asked such subjective questions.
A caveat: If one is asking a teacher or a Rov that taught the boy or girl in high school, (or even more who taught him in elementary) a number of years have passed, and what the growing the boy or girl has done in the intervening years may have literally made a different person out of them. What we hear may not be applicable anymore. The subject of our question may have matured beyond recognition, and what we hear would not apply anymore. So try to get information from people that know the subject now and not years earlier. SAme applies when giving manes for references, give people who know your bocher or maidel now and not 5 years ago.
Let us keep in mind as well that the period between High School and looking for a shidduch is a period of major change in a person’s life. So if the information you are hearing is from a numbers of years back, keep an open mind.
This also applies if the person is out of seminary 3 or more years. Information from a Seminary teacher may only reflect part of the personality of the person at this time. After all we all work on ourselves to improve.
Regarding objective questions of dubious value such as, “Did the boy/girl get straight A’s on their report card? One can simply say I do not know, because such a question has no relation to the present situation or to the character of the person.
I have heard of a lot of questions of no value being asked, such as if the family uses color or white tablecloths for Shabbos, uses plastic on the table, or if they scrape or stack the dishes. Not to excuse these questions, because they do not have real merit, but a possible explanation as to how they came about is this: “Traditional” families would use white tablecloths on Shabbos and Yom Tov. More "modern" ones might have used colored ones. Maybe, a mother felt that asking about the tablecloth would tell her the level of "tradition" in the family without having to ask outright. Similarly, when asking whether someone scrapes the plates or stacks them. It is more polite to take away the plates without either stacking or scraping. The next level is to stack the plates and take them to the kitchen. The third option is to scrape the plates at the table which is not polite at all. So again, a mother might have wanted to know how “well mannered” the family is with such a question. I cannot say whether these questions ever had a place in gathering information in a more genteel past. They do not seem relevant nowadays.
There is a difficult situation when someone knows of a condition that the other party was not told of, such as a physical or mental condition or previous marital status or the like. If one knows of a shidduch where such information has been withheld and s/he knows the information is true first hand (or if second hand the information has been verified), then s/he should definitely ask a Rov if they should tell the interested party of this condition. Not every condition has to be disclosed at the beginning when the families are doing research, and although some have to be disclosed before they meet, still others do not have to be disclosed until the engagement or at all. Only a Rov can distinguish which conditions should be revealed and which not.
Even in the case a Rov considers the information must be revealed, the information may only be relayed when
- the condition is serious,
- one is not exaggerating the condition,
- and there is a reasonable chance that the information will be accepted and acted upon. If it is likely to be ignored, it is prohibited to be relayed.
The first step in such a case is, of course, to contact the first party and convince them to share the information with the other party. This way the information will come directly from the person in question. Try to convince the person you are talking to, that it will be much better if they themselves raise the issue rather than having the information come to the other family from a third party, such as yourself. If there is a possibility that the information will be ignored or if the person in possession of this information has ulterior motives for disclosing this information, then s/he is not allowed to disclose this information.
Because of many other issues one should never take upon oneself to make such a decision on one’s own but should always consult with a Rav.
Posted by Basmelech at 16:39 0 comments
Labels: Shidduchim Information gathering and giving, references, requirements, research, shadchan, shadchonim, Shidduch, shidduchim
Sunday, February 22, 2009
The Tongue III - Giving information
The third situation is that of a person called for information.
This person must be careful to be honest and careful not to speak Loshen Hora. To this end when calling for information tell the person that you are calling to ask information for a shidduch.
Do not ask:"What can you tell me about so and so?"
A person asked for information should only answer specific questions rather than giving a narrative. They should be asked direct questions and not vague general questions. First of all, one gets better information with direct questions, but also, a person asked a direct question can answer to the point.
Naturally the person giving the information should give first person information. If what one is saying is only hearsay one must say so. Specify that what s/he is saying came to him/her second hand. Certainly one should limit oneself to facts and not hearsay.
Even when dealing in facts, what is told has to be with the intent of giving the best information so that the person who is asking will get a full picture of the one asked about. The information should be given for the benefit of the party requesting the information with no thoughts of finally being able to give over a piece of gossip or taking revenge on someone chv"s.
It is generally difficult to give subjective information. For example, if someone asks whether a girl is pretty or slim. What is pretty for one may be comely for another (beauty is in the eyes of the beholder), and where one feels only a size 6 will do, another will be happy with a size 12.
Giving a size may be deceptive because of body types. Sometimes the size 12 may look like a 10, and the 10 may look like the 12. Just to sidetrack a moment in regard to sizes, most boys have no idea what a size 4 or 10 looks like, they think in terms of people, i.e. is she like my sister.
The only way to give good information when a subjective question is asked is to know the person one is talking to, and know what meaning s/he is imbuing the question with. This is not always possible. The same is true when asking for information. If one is close to the person who is giving the information, they will know what kind of “measuring scale” they use. If they say someone is smart, we will know what level of smart this person is telling us about because we know their opinion of who is smart and who is not.
If we do not know the person well, then how can we know what they mean by “smart” or by “outgoing” or “neat” etc.
A person may be a “neat freak”, and anyone less orderly is considered “messy”. Or a person may be above average intelligent and consider someone who is just average not very smart. It is almost like talking a different language.
You are using the same sounds, but the meaning is very different. One could say it is like the English language; one may say “night” and the other understands “Knight”.
Many times we are called to answer subjective questions from people whom we have never met. Sometimes we may feel that if our answer is interpreted the wrong way, it may ruin a shidduch. In such a case a safe answer is “I do not know.” Another method is to interrupt the conversation with an excuse and call a Rav. Then call the person back.
Posted by Basmelech at 23:57 0 comments
Labels: Shidduchim Information gathering and giving, Loshen Hora, references, research, shadchonim, Shidduch, shidduchim, shidduchim parsha

